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 Warlock in archer party

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Phobos
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PostSubject: Warlock in archer party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:01 pm

Wanna hear ur opinion about warlock in archer party. If we cound that the pt has full buff + songs + COV + archers have DB+focus and AQs then their crit.rate ~480 and some additional crit rate can be in weapon. So the warlock wont give any crit.rate only some crit damage. Its in PVP, in farm even w/o AQs on snipe crit rate will be 500.

So the question is - is it realy needed or its better to take 1 more archer?

/discuss
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Tanilia
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:03 am

i dont wanna discuss Razz but if we have many archers with db+focus+AQ then better one more archer than wk ... or could be chicken with S crossbow+focus+AQ+real target)
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shafha
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:23 pm

It depend, wk is better than archer in B grade, but S archer better than wk. Anyway i think that one more archer is better because its more polyvalent. If an other archer is missing for any reason we can easy replace him by the new one. Wk is here to give only one buff, so its quite limited. In siege we need as many alive people as we can to deal dammage.
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Marek
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:53 pm

I won`t agree - guys WK buff give 30% crit dmg higher - so with buffs and crit rate around 500 - crit dmg from bow will be really high - one shot = one kill.
MY pt would look like that - 3 archers/BD/SWS/WK/WC/BP/EE
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:13 pm

Maybe but look, ill do some easy mathematics:

- 3 archer in party + 1 wlk
- lets say 1000 dmg on critic (all archer same stuff so same dmg like its supposed to be (all db))

- each archer give a critic so: 1000+0.3*1000 dmg per archer, if you count all the dmg made by the party it is: (1000+0.3*1000)*3=3900 dmg

Now

- 4 archer in party
- 1000 dmg on critic (still same stuff)

- each archer give a critic so: 1000 dmg per archer, you you count all the dmg made by the party it is 1000*4 = 4000 dmg

Conclusion: 4 archer give more dmg than 3 archer + wlk (2.5% more)


Now lets imagine one archer die in both party:

- 2 archer + 1 wlk = (1000+0.3*1000)*2 = 2600 dmg
- 3 archer = 3*1000 = 3000 dmg

Conclusion: one more time the party without wlk give more dmg (13.33% more)

But maybe you will tell me that not everybody is with same stuff, ok:

- 2 archer in S (1000) +1 archer in A (800) + 1 wlk
dmg= (800+0.3*800)+(1000+0.3*1000)*2= 3640 dmg

- 3 archer in S (1000) +1 archer in A (800)
dmg= 800+1000*3= 3800 dmg

- 2 archer in S (1000) + 2 archer in A (800)
dmg= 800*2+1000*2= 3600 dmg

So as you can see, party with wlk isnt so good.
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Phobos
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:09 pm

We imagine the ideal party with epic and S-grade bows+SA
Yes looks like with 4 archers its better damage, but wk isnt only for cat buffs, he gives warrior/mage banes to enemys that are very usefull and he can res bish with scroll is sh1t happens

So still dunno what is better
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Marek
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:02 pm

Shafta remember archer to have full crit rate must have hunter/focus/etc... and be on snipe - without it they have 300-400 i think - wk buff give 30% more crit rate as well.
Btw - check party setups on official ( by some l2 bible ) - ther is alway pt for WK in archer pt.

OFC - WK have banes and don`t forget about arcana distruption - nukes are hard injured in c.speed and m.atack by it. Smile

WK FTW Smile

If i would make an DD ( archer for example - i would tke one WK instead of 4 archers.
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:42 pm

finrep do u read the first post ? I wrote that FULL GOOD IDEAL PARTY ! It means hunter/focus/etc and S grade +focus . and not 300-400 crit rate then but 470-480 so crit rate from WK buff isnt counted
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:57 pm

Well there is no ideal pt Smile
So what a heck ?
Warlock is a must in Archer PT - make pvp - one pt with WK - second with 4 archers - check who will win.
I`m in 98% sure that pt with WK will win - 2% are statistic error Smile
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Phobos
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:04 pm

if u have never been in ideal pt it doesnt mean there isnt such a party

and we are discussing it by giving some arguments not like " i saw wk (or +archer) in archer pt so it must be / i think it will be better with / etc"

as for me i'd prefer wk too for pvp, but im trying to see what is better.

My opinion for:
Archer: more damage, less chances for healers to stay alive even if 1 archer is dead and it can be the reason to win
Warlock: warior/mage bane, arcana disruption, can cure medusa, can help a bit in heal, cubics

That what i think
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xKain
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:58 pm

we dont have WK and they are pure leechers)
we have archers - so make party with archers
and i dont understand why you wanna make clear archer party - on HB mobs are hard and mixed party will be ok, its something like rex mobs
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:25 pm

wk>4th archer

cause as shafha said 4 archers give 100 dmg more but they do this in 4 shots so target has time to recieve heals between also archer full buff has 460 crit rate not 500

also wk has debuffs that can pawn enemy bp cast speed + archers att.speed also he can heal rez have cubics
also can get nuke augm Razz

i think better than wk in pt is 1 kamael for real target or 1 dagger
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:33 pm

target doesnt have time to recieve heal, its the case of all archer shot in same time and critic, for both party. Mby with wk its better for buff etc, i was looking only at dmg
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:36 pm

Draven, 4 shots not from each archer but 1 shot from 1 and its 4 in 1 time

btw queen blessing gives +25% crit damage, so even lower damage ;\
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:27 pm

so 4 archers = 4000 dmg
3 archers + 1 WK = 3000+750=3750 dmg

so dmg is lower only by 250, but with wk - you have higher crit chance/dmg - and enemy has debuffs - really fucking good - and you have mass cubic - so it gives extra dmg - 100 i think but multiplied by 9.
So now you have 3750+900=4750
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PostSubject: Re: Warlock in archer party   Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:31 pm

no cubic give much lower dmg on ~80 char ;p and not on 9 coz its low chance of success, but with it it can be ~same dmg.
But i think yes, wk is better ;]
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